Richard III

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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:51 pm

I feel alternately really shy and absolutely puffed about this :D . It's the bit about a WOTR counterpart for Camelot's Merlin

https://murreyandblue.wordpress.com/201 ... the-roses/
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:00 pm

Richard, Duke of Gloucester: the Man Who Wouldn’t be King
Posted on October 19, 2015

Anti-Ricardians often partly justify their dislike of Richard III on account of his unattractive crown-hunger, claiming that he was always desperate to be king, spent his life plotting to this end and ruthlessly eliminating anyone who stood in his way, and cite as proof the prompt usurpation of his nephew Edward V in 1483.

I’ve always found this arrant nonsense. At the time of Richard’s birth in 1452, the throne was squarely occupied by the House of Lancaster; and while many people felt that his father Richard, Duke of York would make a better king than Henry VI, the Yorkist claim was not at this point being actively pursued. Moreover, having three healthy older brothers above him in the pecking order for titles, as a child Richard was but a minor princeling – and when Queen Margaret produced a Lancastrian Prince of Wales in 1453, neither he nor his brothers were remotely serious contenders for the crown.

The situation didn’t change until 1460, when Richard of York’s short-lived stint as heir-apparent raised young Dyckon to fifth in line to the throne. Then he edged a step closer when the Duke’s death at Wakefield was avenged at Towton in 1461 and his eldest brother confirmed as King Edward IV; but thereafter, his loyalty was absolute and his own best interests served by maintaining Edward’s position. I say this not as a ‘bride of St Richard’ who can believe no wrong of him, but because it doesn’t seem to square with the evidence. Think about it: their relationship made Richard of Gloucester the second most powerful magnate in the country, effectively king of the North, able to enjoy all the wealth and prestige without the dangers and burdens of wearing the crown. Edward was Richard’s protector and guarantor, his bulwark against Woodville ambitions; had he lived for another ten or twenty years, (by no means unlikely, given the robust health of their parents), his two sons would have been grown men with their own affinities, no doubt raised by their father to view their uncle as an indispensable political ally, and Richard would not have been king.

Ah, you say, but that didn’t happen – the black-hearted villain pinched his nephew’s crown practically before his brother’s body was cold! So he must have started planning his coup the moment he heard of Edward’s death – mustn’t he? Actually, no. Proceedings at the recent Richard III Foundation Inc. conference make it seem highly unlikely that Richard’s actions in the spring of 1483 were simply designed to lull the Woodvilles into a false sense of security while he laid his plans for usurpation. Susan Troxell, in her discussion of Richard’s heraldic emblem, showed the image of a gold angel naming Edward V as king and bearing a boar’s head mint-mark, dating it to the short period of the Protectorate. Surely issuing coinage is a step too far in terms of subterfuge; surely the implication is rather that Richard did indeed acknowledge his nephew as king, while simultaneously asserting his own intention to be firmly involved with the reign. Subsequently, he might have been satisfied with the role of Protector if he could have felt confident that the young king’s family would accept his pre-eminence. However, considering the dread fates of recent Protectors (Henry VI’s uncle Humphrey, the previous Duke of Gloucester, and his own father Richard), he had good reason to lack this confidence – especially as Professor Peter Hancock has now demonstrated, by an ingenious piece of historical detective work, that William Lord Hastings was not in London on 25th April 1483, but at his castle of Ashby where it seems likely that Richard met him as he travelled down from the north. There he would have received the unwelcome news that the Woodvilles thought they could rule very nicely without him – hence his precipitate actions in arresting Earl Rivers, Richard Grey and Thomas Vaughn and securing the person of Edward V at Stoney Stratford on 30th April.

Taking these two pieces of evidence together, I think it’s safe to say that in the immediate aftermath of Edward IV’s death, Richard of Gloucester had no thought of taking the throne for himself; this idea did not develop until the emergence of the pre-contract story and the dawning realisation that, just like his father, he had no choice but to press his own claim to the throne if he wanted to safeguard himself and his family’s future. - from Helen Rae Rants!
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Re: Richard III

Postby Padfoot » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:55 am

My thoughts put into words.
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:28 pm

First the Boar is buried, now the Bard is checked out (which should be fine - hey, go look! Just don't move 'em.)

Shakespeare's Grave to be Scanned

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-35688546
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Re: Richard III

Postby Padfoot » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:48 pm

Wanna bet it's empty? :D :evil: ;)
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:40 pm

Padfoot wrote:Wanna bet it's empty? :D :evil: ;)


Until you said that, it never occurred to me that it might be. But now, I don't know :/ . What if it is :? ? I can't wait to find out :D !
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Re: Richard III

Postby Padfoot » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:52 am

I don't know if it is, but the warning attached to it made me think of it. What if somebody wanted to scare nosy people (not only robbers) away, to hide the fact that the tomb is empty? If somebody would find out, it'd be quite an uproar. Imagine the uproar a couple of centuries earlier..
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:16 pm

If I remember right, some cemeteries charge a fee and after so many years, the bones are exhumed and moved to make room for the next if you're not paid up or that's their standard of doing things; it's all due to a lack of space.

In fact, there's a very important English Baha'i by the name of Thomas Breakwell, who died very young, and was buried in such a place in France. When the fee wasn't paid and his remains were removed from the grave; his bones were then washed, wrapped, and placed in a marked box in a row of shelves. The grave has had many people in it since, and he's now about 3 or 4 rows back from the entrance - it's like library shelves, but placed with no room between them. It would be nice to retrieve him and make his grave permanent in the original space, so that we could visit (just imagine if Mozart could be found! After the beautiful reburial ceremony and tomb that was made for sweet Dickon, I find I want everybody that's lost to have that. I know, it's totally and irretrievably nuts of me :paperbag: )

Anyway, I think he's there - now that I've had a think. Once we got past the superstitious period of his time, we moved on to his brilliance as poet/playwright and he became valuable to the nation. His own reputation protected him from then on - at least I hope so.
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Re: Richard III

Postby Padfoot » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:11 am

I wanted to watch a documentary about the Princes in the Tower, unfortunately, it aired at 01:00 am. Of course, I fell asleep. Now I'm trying to find out whether it'll air again at a better time. Seriously... 01:00 am :slowblush: :redeyeroll:
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:06 pm

You know, I would truly like for that urn to be opened at Westminster, as far as that goes. Let me know if you get to see it and what they said.
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Mon May 02, 2016 12:58 pm

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GO LEICESTER!!!!
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Re: Richard III

Postby Padfoot » Wed May 04, 2016 11:17 am

They did it!!!
:cheers: :downapint: :yay: :yay: :yay:
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Wed May 04, 2016 9:38 pm

I'm so happy for them :D . I had to explain to my husband the odds and all that so he was impressed (likening it to a minor league baseball team winning the World Series helped.) I must admit I was torn just a smidge, being for Manchester United as I am, but still, when I saw how delirious they were after the win, how could I not go along? Especially since my king was wearing their colors :lol: .
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:04 pm

There's a chance that the first wife of Edward IV, has been discovered. Lady Eleanor Talbot was married secretly to the king and had a son with him. This was, according to Bishop Robert Stillington, who said he performed the rite himself, before the king met Elizabeth Woodville. She was the mother of Edward and Richard, also known as, the Princes in the Tower.

John Ashdown Hill may have done it again :) !

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/facial_reco ... _1_4571274
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Re: Richard III

Postby shireling » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:13 pm

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August 22cd, 1485 - Bosworth Field
RIP

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