How much RB do we want in this site?

Please ask any questions you have about the workings (intended or in error) of the site in here.

How much RBness?

Clean slate
3
19%
Hints to the past
13
81%
 
Total votes: 16

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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Shuggy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:34 am

Azriel wrote:I think with the IB it's gotten to seem like a roleplaying club. I was never a regular poster, but I've been in and out over the years chatting and sometimes RPing. It always seemed odd to me when I went there looking to see what people were chatting about and only found people talking about what they were 'doing' there with the latest bar furniture/servants/additions as opposed to actually having a conversation. Not to say people don't have real conversations there, please don't mistake me. But I would definitely be all for a move away from the first post being so role-play-ey and instead simply being a one-paragraph explanation of "here's a place to chat about anything and have a continuous thread of conversation"


This ^.

I only looked at the first post in 'The Ivy' for the first time yesterday, to see what all the fuss was about.

Absolutely ridiculous. The list of 'Rules' should be deleted at once - I have never read anything so silly and so potentially off-putting to new members - not to mention plain embarrassing; what's that drivel about 'customers' must ask to be 'served' and wait to be 'served' by one of the 'bartenders' or something?! :shock:

At least - it would seem - nobody is trying to enforce these rules, but even so - I'd hate to know what impression of us a newcomer, or browsing guest, would get if they decided to go looking for the most popular thread on the site and dropped into 'The Ivy'...

    New Member: "Hey everyone - I'm new!"

    Ivy Poster: "Hey, New Person - Welcome! What are you drinking?!"

    New Member: "Nothing actually - I was going to make a coffee..."

    Ivy Poster: "Well, pull up a stool and let me draw you an ale!"

    New Member: "I'm sorry?"

    Ivy Poster: "Or would you like something else? Put something on the Jukebox too if you like!"

    New Member: "Something else? 'Jukebox' WTF? Er... yeah... I'll have 'ale'. Say! I'm just going to go to the 'toilet'! BRB!"

    Ivy Poster: "The toilet's just to the right of the bar!"

    New Member: "kthanxbye!"

    New Member is Offline. New Member last visited this site: 7 months ago. Total Posts: 5.

And if they actually read the 'Bar Rules' there'd be ZERO posts, I suspect.

ETA: Perhaps I am being a bit generous and unrealistic with 'New Member's post count - 5 posts on this site as it stands would put 'New Member' near enough squarely in the middle of the memberlist, sorted by posts. That's right - that little exchange above is more posts than over 30 of our ex-RB members have managed to make - including 2 Admins. :lol:
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Azriel » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:40 pm

Possibly moving away from the 'bar' theme would help.

How about re-naming it the Chatty Chat thread for Chatters who like to Chat?
No?

How about we call it "The Thread of Conversation" ? ;)
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Shuggy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:23 pm

Azriel wrote:Possibly moving away from the 'bar' theme would help.

How about re-naming it the Chatty Chat thread for Chatters who like to Chat?
No?

How about we call it "The Thread of Conversation" ? ;)


:lol:

Does it need to be called ANYTHING? It's in the 'General Chat' forum...

But, how about 'The Tweet Thread'; or 'How Are You?'; or 'What Have You Been Up To?'.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Halasian » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:47 am

I'll comment here since I was/have been a semi-somewhat erratic regular in that thread. I always seen it as a sort of hello/catch-up thread, but as less and less people posted, it became more like a sort of informal Im chat. So I'd just throw in a post here and there, and but for a couple folk, was usually ignored. No biggie.. it was just the way it goes.

Now... I think with a name like Remember The Balrog, you have not gotten away from the Ringbearer format, and in fact it would have been better to re-vamp the old site and stick to the name. Should have broken away from it altogether, having Tolkien be a secondary feature.

I don't run the site, but in my trek through the old site, it seems little was done to advertize this site or prevent a spammer to clutter it up. You should just put a re-route on that url to here, or maybe pass the keys to the old site over and I'll clean it up....

For my part, I 'spammed' it with a thread directing anyone who may go to their olf favorite link to heere, instead of just finding spamzilla.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby shireling » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:42 am

I'll tell you this - I have an even greater appreciation for Baha'i consultation than I ever thought possible. You put out an idea and it belongs to the group. It's not yours anymore, and while consensus is good if you can get it, to the majority goes the decision and that's it.

It's not fun anymore. There's too many people I miss that I don't know how to find. It's like when EFF collapsed. It was huge and it just crashed one day - we lost everything and everybody we didn't have a personal connection with. It's such a tiny, tiny minority that's miserable here and they'll make damn sure the rest of us are too - I don't even get any joy from mocking them back!
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Shuggy » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:04 am

shireling wrote:I'll tell you this - I have an even greater appreciation for Baha'i consultation than I ever thought possible. You put out an idea and it belongs to the group. It's not yours anymore, and while consensus is good if you can get it, to the majority goes the decision and that's it.


Once again, the issue is not one of sour grapes on my part; what annoys me is that the 'majority' (all ten or twelve who could be bothered to vote) decided to vote for their favourite and then not come back to the site, leaving us hamstrung with a name that does not reflect what the direction of this site was supposed to be. We now have to work against this, and the very people who voted for it are not helping.

shireling wrote:It's not fun anymore. There's too many people I miss that I don't know how to find. It's like when EFF collapsed. It was huge and it just crashed one day - we lost everything and everybody we didn't have a personal connection with.


These people left and won't be coming back for precisely the reason RB died - nobody cares about LOTR anymore, and any interesting discussion has long since died away to be replaced with mind-numbing word games and prattle threads. And here people are trying to recreate RB, or wishing we could go back to the 'good old days' :roll:

The people you miss aren't coming back; what we should be looking at is getting new people on here so we can make new friends.

Take a good look around you - we have 64/65? members on this site and my post about pictures of new work for 'The Hobbit' on the Hobbiton set managed 5 seperate posts. :shock: I could generate more interest than that on a forum dedicated to CARS; so how the f*ck is a new visitor to this site going to be tempted to stay? :shock:

shireling wrote:It's such a tiny, tiny minority that's miserable here and they'll make damn sure the rest of us are too


Who's miserable? What you mistake for my being miserable (and it's obvious you're referring to me) is actually concern. And I am actively trying to jolt people into rectifying the situation while we can.

I think you'll find that there are quite a few people who agree with me (relatively speaking) to one extent or another. The problem is that you - and others who actually post here - rarely leave your little bubbles and look around the site to see what's happening. Just off the top of my head I know your posting cycle is something along the lines of:

Journal>Hangman>Ivy>Maybe a quick look around.

If I see that Padfoot has posted in the 'Movies' Forum, I know it will be in an actor appreciation thread.

If I see that Candy Kane has posted in 'General', I know it's either The Ivy, or Hangman, or both.

My point is, what do you think you (and others) are achieving by complaining that this site isn't fun any more, then locking yourselves into a tiny part of the forum, posting in the same threads all the time?

I am doing my part to stimulate debate and interest where I can - I am in the top ten posters on this site, and that's WITHOUT a single post in The Ivy, or Hangman.

I will continue to try and stimulate debate on this site until it finally sinks under the weight of all the Ivy and Hangman posts, and dies.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby shireling » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:24 pm

Shuggy wrote:I will continue to try and stimulate debate on this site until it finally sinks under the weight of all the Ivy and Hangman posts, and dies.


Then, Shuggy, why don't you get off your duff and create a site of your own.

You're so full of ideas, you know just what's wrong but you're obviously too chicken-crap to do it on your own. If not, then prove me wrong. Be your own admin and show us how it's done. Use some of that time you've got for bashing Balrog on something constructive.

I'll wait...
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Shuggy » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:23 am

shireling wrote:
Shuggy wrote:I will continue to try and stimulate debate on this site until it finally sinks under the weight of all the Ivy and Hangman posts, and dies.


Then, Shuggy, why don't you get off your duff and create a site of your own.

You're so full of ideas, you know just what's wrong but you're obviously too chicken-crap to do it on your own. If not, then prove me wrong. Be your own admin and show us how it's done. Use some of that time you've got for bashing Balrog on something constructive.

I'll wait...


:lol: Congratulations - that is quite possibly one of the most childish and retarded arguments I have ever seen! You do realise that the 'Shuggy is a chicken! Shuggy is a chicken!' gambit only works when you're about 10 years old in a school playground, don't you?

Not only that, but your logic is incredibly flawed; I am concerned about THIS site, and want to try and stop it going under - please explain to me how leaving this site and building one of my own would benefit this place? I'll wait.

Anyway, to answer your question; as a soldier I am away from home and PC access for significantly long periods at a time - it would be impractical for me to plan, build and administrate a phpBB site by myself, and would be unfair on the site members. I can assure you that having my own website is one of the LAST things in this world that I fear.

Also; if you left your little bubble from time-to-time, you would see that I (and Azrael) have both publically offered our services to help out this site - I have Admin'd on 2 phpBB sites in the past when time allowed, and I even helped to build A&E Gaming Community to near completion over the course of a weekend. As it stands, nobody has taken us up on the offer. But thanks for proving my point about people not knowing what happens on the site outside of their own little area of concern.

Also, you may have noticed the banner I offered up for the site. It didn't take me long, but my own personal time and effort were invested in it; as were emclelland's in hers.

What have YOU done to help the site apart from mostly ignore any post that wasn't in The Ivy, the Hangman thread, or your journal?

I'll wait.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby shireling » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:47 am

You have the last word, Shuggy. Thank you for your service.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Azriel » Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:06 pm

Aw c'mon guys... now you're both getting a bit childish.
Please lets not take out frustrations about the site on each other.

Shuggy isn't responsible for the site dying, and neither is Shireling.

Shireling I don't think Shuggy was intending to be mean (originally) when he pointed out that you don't post in a very wide area. Just wanted to point out why he feels the site is dying. It's a valid point (though personally I think that people posting in small bubbles is only a small part of the reason the site is dying). I can see why it bothered you but I don't know that it merited telling him to go off and make his own site.

Shuggy, I think you identified a lot of valid problems with the site, I don't disagree with most of what you say, but there are nicer ways to say things and I don't necessarily agree that these problems are the main ones affecting the site and it's apparent death.
It has begun to seem like you're just on a complaining spree, and you're starting to get personal. I know you have the site's best interest in mind, but if the existing few members feel harassed that they don't post more, it's not going to make them want to change.

Most of the people here have stuck around this long because they love the site or like the other members, but that doesn't automatically mean they have time to start posting more than usual or start working on the site. IF people have time to post in a wider range, that would be good. But possibly friendly encouragement would work better. I wouldn't bother entering another part of a forum if all I heard people do was complain that I didn't post there.


What RB (or RtB) is missing is a dedicated and excited group of admins who will actively make changes and work on the site. I think the current admins definitely love Tolkien and the site or they wouldn't have stuck around as long as they have, but I think other things have taken precedence in their lives - which is fine. However I think if we don't get newer or more excited people involved the site will continue as it is or worse.
RB originally took off because Joram was a teen with tons of time on his hands and spent hours in his basement working on making the site better. After he left we kept going because the admins worked hard to keep the site updating with news, a new look, etc. But now things have petered out.
The same thing happened with my own LOTR site. I was getting thousands of hits a day when I updated every couple days and was enthusiastically working on making my site better. Now I've not touched it in months and tbh I have no idea how much traffic it gets but I'd wager less than 100 hits a day. The content is still just as fun as it always was, but without someone excited running it, it just loses something.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby shireling » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:29 pm

Thanks, Azriel, but I still think that if Shuggy is that unhappy then he should create his own site. On the contrary, I saw it as something positive and I still do - I should have worded it better. I didn't and for that I apologize.

I've been wondering how much all the feud & fuss over filming The Hobbit has contributed to falling interest.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Shuggy » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:07 am

shireling wrote:You have the last word, Shuggy. Thank you for your service.


My Army service? No need to thank me; we get paid for it. It just keeps me away a lot.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Shuggy » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:25 am

Azriel wrote:Aw c'mon guys... now you're both getting a bit childish.
Please lets not take out frustrations about the site on each other.


I'm not frustrated with anyone in particular; just the way things are going in general.

Azriel wrote:Shuggy isn't responsible for the site dying, and neither is Shireling.


Agreed. Plus, Shireling isn't the only site member with an insular posting routine; Shireling just chose to get involved in this discussion. At least Shireling actually POSTS on this site...

Azriel wrote:Shireling I don't think Shuggy was intending to be mean (originally) when he pointed out that you don't post in a very wide area. Just wanted to point out why he feels the site is dying. It's a valid point (though personally I think that people posting in small bubbles is only a small part of the reason the site is dying). I can see why it bothered you but I don't know that it merited telling him to go off and make his own site.


I wasn't intending to be 'mean'; I'd suggest it's very obvious when I DO intend to be mean!

I've made my point regarding the logic and maturity of 'going of to make my own site'; I'm about as far away from being offended by that as I can be while still remaining in the same universe.

Azriel wrote:Shuggy, I think you identified a lot of valid problems with the site, I don't disagree with most of what you say, but there are nicer ways to say things and I don't necessarily agree that these problems are the main ones affecting the site and it's apparent death.
It has begun to seem like you're just on a complaining spree, and you're starting to get personal. I know you have the site's best interest in mind, but if the existing few members feel harassed that they don't post more, it's not going to make them want to change.


At the risk of sounding like IBA; I don't really care if people think I am on a complaining spree, and I'm certainly not getting personal, however, I will not shy away from saying what needs to be said and pointing fingers where they need pointing. I NEVER point a finger where it's not justified either.

Azriel wrote:Most of the people here have stuck around this long because they love the site or like the other members, but that doesn't automatically mean they have time to start posting more than usual or start working on the site. IF people have time to post in a wider range, that would be good. But possibly friendly encouragement would work better. I wouldn't bother entering another part of a forum if all I heard people do was complain that I didn't post there.


Agreed. However, I did try and restrict my 'complaining' to 'Workshops' - the logical place to do it - but given that VERY few people actually read/post in 'Workshops', the only other option was 'General Chat' - people then complain about the nasty man making them feel all guilty about drinking their virtual beer. Catch 22.

Azriel wrote:What RB (or RtB) is missing is a dedicated and excited group of admins who will actively make changes and work on the site. I think the current admins definitely love Tolkien and the site or they wouldn't have stuck around as long as they have, but I think other things have taken precedence in their lives - which is fine. However I think if we don't get newer or more excited people involved the site will continue as it is or worse.
RB originally took off because Joram was a teen with tons of time on his hands and spent hours in his basement working on making the site better. After he left we kept going because the admins worked hard to keep the site updating with news, a new look, etc. But now things have petered out.
The same thing happened with my own LOTR site. I was getting thousands of hits a day when I updated every couple days and was enthusiastically working on making my site better. Now I've not touched it in months and tbh I have no idea how much traffic it gets but I'd wager less than 100 hits a day. The content is still just as fun as it always was, but without someone excited running it, it just loses something.


It just seems that our Admins are unwilling to post, or put much time and effort into this site, but are also reluctant to let others who WILL, do anything. We have an Admin who has visited this site ONCE - to register. We have only three Admins who post anything LIKE regularly - Cassie, Locks and Keith, but even they are starting to tail off.
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Re: How much RB do we want in this site?

Postby Shuggy » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:31 am

shireling wrote:Thanks, Azriel, but I still think that if Shuggy is that unhappy then he should create his own site. On the contrary, I saw it as something positive and I still do - I should have worded it better. I didn't and for that I apologize.


And I still think that's an extremely stupid, illogical suggestion. But you said what you said, how you said it; I replied how I replied - no harm done; I certainly don't feel you need to apologise for ANYTHING - you're entitled to an opinion, just as I'm entitled to debate it.

shireling wrote:I've been wondering how much all the feud & fuss over filming The Hobbit has contributed to falling interest.


I would have thought that would have generated MORE interest and discussion, ie; will it get made/won't it?! Who will direct?! Who would you want to direct? What's your dream cast? etc, etc.

Plus, it would seem that casting for the film still continues...
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